My Parents Are Flaunting Their Wealth While I’m Drowning in Debt. Help!
Speaker A: Welcome to Dear Prudence.
Speaker A: I’m your prudence, Janae Desmond Harris.
Speaker A: Today we’ll be discussing when to stop funding a quote unquote, train wreck daughter’s lifestyle, how to deal with watching your parents take expensive vacations when you’re completely broke, and whether to seek replacement costs when a friend’s drunk uncle destroys your guitar.
Speaker A: Here to help me out is my husband, slate senior writer and podcast host Joel Anderson.
Speaker A: He’s the author of a new column at Slate called Emotional Investment, which is all about how we’re handling money.
Speaker A: We as Americans are handling money and the many complicated feelings that surround it.
Speaker A: So since he’s supposed to be an expert now, we have all money related questions for him.
Speaker B: Today I’m more expert on the feelings part as opposed to the money part.
Speaker B: You see, the emotional part.
Speaker B: I got that.
Speaker B: The investment.
Speaker B: I don’t know so much about that.
Speaker A: Well, we’ll take what we can get.
Speaker A: We have you here.
Speaker A: So for your unsolicited advice, I told you I’m going to have you give some more that you haven’t given before.
Speaker A: You did say you wanted to redo.
Speaker B: Mine was pretty bad in retrospect, wasn’t it?
Speaker A: Like, don’t give unsolicited.
Speaker B: It was really, really bad.
Speaker B: I think I had not thought it through before I came on the spot.
Speaker A: A good piece of advice.
Speaker A: It’s a good advice.
Speaker B: It was very cliche, especially as I heard other people give better versions of it.
Speaker B: I was like, oh, man, I really messed that up.
Speaker B: My only unsolicited advice around money is that only give money that you don’t need back.
Speaker B: And if you give it, never expect it back again.
Speaker A: Even if the person says, even if.
Speaker B: They say, I’m going to pay you back, I’m going to work on this such and such.
Speaker B: I really believe that you just should not give people money with the expectation that they’re working on the same timeline as you are.
Speaker B: And also, if a person is in such a bad situation that they need money, presumably they need to pay off whatever they’ve just paid off and didn’t get back to.
Speaker B: I wouldn’t want to put my friend in that sort of a position.
Speaker B: I mean, also, and we know this as a couple, co signing can work as long as you can afford it, right?
Speaker B: Nobody with any sense would advise you to.
Speaker A: You’re talking about, like, co signing a loan, car loan.
Speaker A: Help out a family member who couldn’t otherwise get it.
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker B: Like, if you can handle the money, great.
Speaker B: You know what I’m saying?
Speaker B: And it probably is like, you’re doing a real solid for somebody in need.
Speaker A: How do you think it went when I did it?
Speaker B: I think it went about as well as it could go.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: Because Janae, her cousin, asked her to co sign an auto loan for her and she did and really didn’t hassle her.
Speaker B: Never asked know, hey, why didn’t you pay this month?
Speaker B: Or why is know Bill late?
Speaker B: Or why am I getting a call from the bank?
Speaker B: She never harassed her.
Speaker B: Janae would just pay sometimes without even saying anything about it, and her cousin still got mad at her.
Speaker A: Well, what ended up happening, I think, was, again, I’m someone who’s not great at sort.
Speaker A: It was sort of a bait and switch where I was supposed to be the co signer, but when all the paperwork was done, I actually ended up being the primary signer and she was the co signer.
Speaker A: As a result, any mail related to the car was coming to me.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: So when she was having parking tickets and overdue fast track bills and stuff, I was getting those and I was updating her on them.
Speaker A: Not antagonizing, but just updating.
Speaker A: And then she felt like that was an attack on.
Speaker B: So.
Speaker B: But see, the thing is, though, is that without talking too much about our family, it’s not like y’all were that close anyway.
Speaker B: Probably anything could have happened that might have set it off.
Speaker B: And so the good thing is that Janae was able to help a family member in need, and I would do the same.
Speaker B: But if I literally need that money, and I’m not sure know me giving money here is going to permit me to not do something else here, then I would not do it.
Speaker B: But I think people, the emotional part of this is that sometimes it feels good to do something for people, and I have an expectation you’re going to get paid back for it.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker A: And I’ll just add one more piece of money related advice or insight that you heard somewhere and you shared with me once, and this helps explain why I did this.
Speaker A: So people don’t think I’m a dummy.
Speaker A: People don’t run out of money, they run out of people.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I felt like if I didn’t do that, my cousin was going to run out of people and she had no one else to turn to.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And I knew that she would have done the same for me if she could have, or someone else in my family.
Speaker A: And I hate to see someone who has no one to turn to.
Speaker B: No, that’s absolutely right.
Speaker A: Anyway, all’s weathered in is.
Speaker A: Well, the car is out of my name now.
Speaker B: It got paid off.
Speaker B: She came to Christmas dinner at the time, so, yeah, we’re mostly back on air.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Joel and I will dive into your questions after a short break.
Speaker A: Welcome back.
Speaker A: You’re listening to dear Prudence, and I’m here with Slate’s own Joel Anderson.
Speaker A: Let’s get started with our first letter.
Speaker A: It’s titled hard line.
Speaker C: My wife and I are done funding our daughter’s lifestyle.
Speaker C: We paid for her college, her first marriage, and her first divorce.
Speaker C: She’s currently in love with the man she’s known for six months and expecting a baby.
Speaker C: This guy has an excuse for everyone in his life.
Speaker C: Parents don’t want him around.
Speaker C: All his bosses were jerks.
Speaker C: All his landlords are crooks.
Speaker C: He can never catch a break.
Speaker C: Our daughter adores him and refuses to hear any word against him.
Speaker C: My wife and I can already see where this train wreck is headed, and we’re fighting about what to do about it.
Speaker C: I’m tired and want to tell our daughter she has two choices, move home and have the baby here or deal with never getting another dime out of us.
Speaker C: My wife is all about, well, what about the baby?
Speaker C: But in my view, coddling our daughter didn’t help.
Speaker C: But maybe a dose of reality will.
Speaker C: Our door will always be open, but the bank of mom and dad has its doors closed.
Speaker C: I love my daughter, but she’s 25 now, not five.
Speaker C: What do we do here?
Speaker A: So I think this letter raises an interesting question.
Speaker A: That’s probably something married couples who have a lot of extra money should talk about, which is if you’re given money to your children to help fund their lifestyle, weddings, college, apartments, extra cash, whatever it may be, what’s the intention?
Speaker A: Is it to make their life easier?
Speaker A: Is it to give them maybe some of what you received at one point because you think that’s fair, or is it to control them?
Speaker B: That’s a good question, man.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: I really like the way you think about that.
Speaker B: And it’s interesting, the person, the letter writer talks about this guy, right?
Speaker B: They’re upset because they’re upset about this person.
Speaker B: He can’t take care of himself.
Speaker B: He’s got beef with parents, bosses, landlords and everything else, and he doesn’t have a lot going on for him.
Speaker B: But you’re funding your daughter’s lifestyle.
Speaker A: Oh, my God.
Speaker A: I didn’t think about that.
Speaker B: It did seem like you could very easily imagine his parents having the same sort of conversation.
Speaker A: They’re equally yoked.
Speaker B: Yeah, they’re equally yoked.
Speaker B: They’ve had other people fund their lifestyles for a while, so maybe you didn’t even think about the idea that they had something in common when you wrote this letter in.
Speaker A: He doesn’t sound horrible.
Speaker A: It’s not as if they said he’s about to go serve a jail sentence.
Speaker A: He’s on the sex offender registry.
Speaker A: He shows signs of being abusive.
Speaker A: He just sounds less than impressive and maybe off putting.
Speaker A: But this isn’t someone who you need to go to the ends of the earth to rip your daughter away from.
Speaker A: It’s also the father of her child.
Speaker B: That’s what I’m saying.
Speaker B: Do you really want to do something as dramatic because you’re tired of paying for your daughter?
Speaker B: Do you want to do something as dramatic as deny your grandchild, one of their parents?
Speaker A: I don’t even think they’re tired of paying for her.
Speaker B: Like the choice.
Speaker A: Exactly.
Speaker A: They don’t like the choice and they want to control the choice.
Speaker B: But that’s just like.
Speaker B: I mean, you and I both know the one thing that you want to do if you would like to draw your daughter and this guy that you can’t stand closer is to draw that kind of line in the sand.
Speaker B: When have you ever heard of somebody being like, you know what?
Speaker B: Okay, I guess I’m going to leave this person alone.
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker B: My daddy say it’s not good.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: No, in the voice of a dullard, as I like to say.
Speaker B: But I mean, seriously, how often does that actually work?
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker A: I also think on a practical level, look, five years into the future, what’s your plan for half a decade from now, when your daughter is living with you, having followed your orders or given into your manipulation?
Speaker A: She’s a single mother.
Speaker A: She still is a person who’s not great at fully supporting herself.
Speaker A: She’s probably still not making amazing choices at that point.
Speaker A: Are you going to always have the threat overhead of, I’m going to kick out you and the child into the street, and where does this end?
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: Absolutely.
Speaker B: I mean, you said in the letter she’s 25.
Speaker B: She’s not five.
Speaker B: Well, 25 ain’t s*** either.
Speaker B: And I like how you said about five years down the road, because there’s so much about the world that she doesn’t know and will experience, especially now as a parent.
Speaker B: So not only are you going to have likely growth and maturity just on that basis, but also, do you really want her memories of this time and the baby’s memories of this time to be about how the father pitched a fit and created an estrangement in the family or would it be better to have a story about they rallied together and supported each other and figured out a way through a really difficult time?
Speaker A: There’s a middle ground here.
Speaker A: You can put limits on the money you give.
Speaker B: Yeah, why not give the money that you already were giving anyway?
Speaker B: You love your daughter.
Speaker B: You’re going to love your grandchild.
Speaker B: Prioritize that and support her now and give her the money you were always giving her.
Speaker B: And if she asks for more, then you can have a conversation about, okay, what is your plan?
Speaker A: Right, exactly.
Speaker A: Is this guy never going to work?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Are we supporting both of you forever?
Speaker A: I mean, at least let her get through the maternity leave phase of things.
Speaker B: Yeah, they can talk gently about the train wreck to come when you see it coming down the tracks, and she can, too.
Speaker B: But right now, you’re just not going to get that.
Speaker B: So love up on her, man, if you can.
Speaker A: I mean, what kind of life do you want?
Speaker A: Do you want a daughter who loves you?
Speaker A: Obviously, I’m assuming here the money isn’t really an issue.
Speaker A: You have the money to give.
Speaker A: It’s not as if it would be one thing if you just had to stop supporting her because you needed the money.
Speaker A: That would be fine.
Speaker A: I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.
Speaker A: If you really want to be a jerk about this and you have tight conditions on the money you’re going to give her going forward, you need to sit down in a written contract, you need to do this.
Speaker A: You need to not do this.
Speaker A: The person you date needs to have these qualities, and then you need to look at that contract and realize that you sound insane.
Speaker B: That’s a good way of saying it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: Go to ask your friends how you sound.
Speaker B: Yeah, that’s an inside joke between the two of us.
Speaker B: She can tell you about some other time, but yeah.
Speaker B: No, I really believe that you’re mad at your daughter about making a bad choice with the partner.
Speaker B: Well, welcome to the world, sir.
Speaker B: You know what I mean?
Speaker B: This is what it’s going to be like.
Speaker B: You never had any guarantees around that anyway.
Speaker B: And like you said, the money is not an issue here.
Speaker B: Obviously, you can afford to give it.
Speaker B: If you want to put conditions on it for down the road, fine.
Speaker B: But it seems like the time to have this conversation about what she’s doing and who she’s doing it with.
Speaker B: That time passed.
Speaker B: It’s happened.
Speaker B: Now move forward.
Speaker A: Keep in mind that if he’s that bad and that disappointing, and if they in fact can’t support themselves even with the money, you’re giving.
Speaker A: Maybe she will move back home voluntarily.
Speaker B: It might happen anyway, with much more.
Speaker A: Love in her heart than she would under these circumstances being forced.
Speaker A: You’re listening to the Dear Prudence show, and when we come back, we’ll be reading more of your letters.
Speaker A: Stay with us.
Speaker A: Welcome back to dear Prudence.
Speaker A: I’m here with my guest, slate zone Joel Anderson.
Speaker A: To answer your letters.
Speaker A: Our next question is titled exasperated.
Speaker D: I’m struggling.
Speaker D: When I was a teenager, my parents triangulated me into their budgeting issues.
Speaker D: My dad was a cheapskate and my mom was a spender.
Speaker D: I was given cash for back to school shopping for myself and my older brother and was sent to the grocery store to ensure my mom didn’t make extraneous purchases.
Speaker D: Now my dad earns a double pension from teaching in different school districts and has gotten a half a million dollar inheritance from my grandparents.
Speaker D: They have gone on lots of fancy vacations in the last five years, Italy, Russia, Egypt, Panama, a south african safari, several domestic trips as well.
Speaker D: While I can appreciate how lucky they are to be able to do these things, it’s hard for me to celebrate.
Speaker D: I personally have about $15,000 of medical debt, and my family and I will not likely be able to go on a vacation this year or next.
Speaker D: My mom has me watching her pets while she travels and wants to regale me with all the details.
Speaker D: I can’t help but be resentful.
Speaker D: I don’t expect a huge inheritance, but the degree to which they’re flaunting their wealth now after putting me in a terribly uncomfortable position for my teenage years is so hard for me.
Speaker A: So I do think the way the letter writer was raised sounds messed up, maybe a little traumatic.
Speaker A: Yeah, they had way too much stress put on them as a child.
Speaker B: Wasn’t fair.
Speaker A: But I would say we need to separate out the two issues.
Speaker A: One, healing from and maybe talking with parents about the upbringing and how difficult it was and how much it hurt.
Speaker A: And on the other hand, taking issue with the parents blowing through their inheritance and are they really even flaunting it or just living?
Speaker A: I think you got to kind of let the second one go.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: I feel sorry for you, man.
Speaker B: Like you were involved in some really tense, sensitive financial issues that you shouldn’t, had to been.
Speaker B: But one tough part of life is this.
Speaker B: You might never get what you think you deserve, right?
Speaker A: I feel like you’re such a dad now.
Speaker A: That’s like a dad lecture.
Speaker A: Is it one tough part of life?
Speaker A: Life isn’t fair, son.
Speaker B: Well, I mean, I’m just like, you think that, like, oh, my parents put me through this, therefore this.
Speaker B: You didn’t talk about any other sort of abuse or other sort of childhood that you had.
Speaker B: And if that’s an element of this, fine.
Speaker B: But even then, your issue is, I want some of that money they’re spending right now, not I want them to make amends to the childhood I had.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker A: Or just for them to listen to me talk about how hard it was and come to an understanding of how it could have been better.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: I think it’s a strange expectation that they pay you in dollars and cents for the emotional harm they caused, even though the harm was around money.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And also, just not to be dismissive, but I don’t think it sounds like you’re doing horribly right now.
Speaker A: It’s not as if 15,000 of medical.
Speaker B: Debt is bad, but it’s not pretty bad.
Speaker A: I don’t think it’s crazy.
Speaker A: It’s not as if you’re living in an extended stay motel and having trouble getting food.
Speaker A: Can’t go on vacation this year, probably, or next, but not the kind of situation where I’d expect your parents to kind of reach in and rescue you.
Speaker B: So.
Speaker B: Yeah, unfortunately, while it does seem like you may have not gotten exactly what you wanted and you couldn’t go on vacation this year, you’re not going to be eligible for charity this year because you didn’t get to go.
Speaker B: But one thing that I did not hear from you in this letter or read anywhere, have you ever asked them for money?
Speaker B: And I’m not saying you should, but if you need some and you’re in debt and this is really over your head, maybe you should ask them for the money.
Speaker A: I didn’t even think about that.
Speaker A: Yeah, why not just ask?
Speaker B: Yeah, just ask for what you need.
Speaker A: For a loan and they never pay it back.
Speaker B: Yeah, that’s right.
Speaker A: They can’t really.
Speaker B: Hopefully your parents will understand.
Speaker B: Hey, look, they’re not good for that.
Speaker A: That’s a really good idea.
Speaker A: Just ask.
Speaker A: I didn’t think about that, but I would say ask in a way that’s not.
Speaker A: You guys messed me up during my childhood over all this money stuff, and we were broke.
Speaker A: I felt broke, and now I really am broke.
Speaker A: And now you’re flaunting all this stuff and it’s out of control.
Speaker A: Can I have some money?
Speaker A: It’s really just, guys, I’m struggling and I wonder if you could spare anything to help me out of this hole.
Speaker B: Yeah, and I’m not really asking you to be passive aggressive or anything, but if it helps, maybe you can pull back from watching their pets being there for them when they go on these trips that they want to go on.
Speaker B: I don’t know how often they go on these trips or how often you would have to beg out of that particular obligation, but maybe just do that for a little bit until you can wrap your head around how to handle this in a more lasting way.
Speaker B: And also just personally, is it possible to be happy for them?
Speaker A: That’s the exact next point I was going to say.
Speaker A: And be happy for yourself.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: I get so many letters from people whose parents are coming to them saying, I have tons of gambling debt and I need you to pay it off, or I expect you to pay for me to continue to live in my five bedroom house that I won’t move out from, or I need this money.
Speaker A: And why aren’t you getting me better gifts?
Speaker A: So your parents, I mean, I know you would love more from them and all of us would love more money, but they’re kind of taking care of themselves and leaving you alone when there’s something to be said for that.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B: And look, man, obviously they went through a really difficult time in their marriage.
Speaker B: They made it to the other side and they like each other enough to still be together and enjoy each other.
Speaker B: Man, that is a blessing.
Speaker B: Yeah, that’s me sounding like a dad, too.
Speaker B: I know.
Speaker B: Grandfather right there.
Speaker B: But, yeah, man, look, again, you can talk with them about doing whatever it is to make your childhood to come to grips with your childhood and how you were treated during it, but like, man, you’ve got your parents.
Speaker B: They’re alive, they’re happy.
Speaker B: They gave you something to look up to.
Speaker B: My brother.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker A: One quick final note.
Speaker A: If there is something you want to raise with them, which this really isn’t in your control, but you do have a legitimate interest in this, I would say that you could have a conversation with them about your hope that they’re putting aside enough money to meet their needs as they get older and stop traveling and need care or need a new home or whatever it may be so that you don’t have to take that on when obviously you can’t afford it.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: No, you know what?
Speaker B: I didn’t even think about, like, maybe this is a reminder.
Speaker B: They’re like, oh, are they still bad about spending money?
Speaker B: Maybe they’re going to be going down that road again and again.
Speaker B: That’s a conversation that hopefully you all will be able to have without it being sort of accusatory.
Speaker A: Right, exactly.
Speaker A: This is dear Prudence, and when we come back, more letters from you and hopefully some helpful advice.
Speaker A: Stay tuned.
Speaker A: I’m Janay, and you’re listening to dear Prudence.
Speaker A: Joel, are you ready for our last question of the day?
Speaker B: Been ready.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker A: This letter is titled vexed violinist.
Speaker E: During the pandemic, I taught myself music, and I’m pretty good for an amateur musician.
Speaker E: At an estate sale, I found a good violin for a few hundred dollars.
Speaker E: It was easily worth two grand.
Speaker E: A friend was getting married, and I offered to play as a wedding gift.
Speaker E: The ceremony went off without a hitch.
Speaker E: The reception was a different story.
Speaker E: Basically, my friend’s uncle got drunk as a skunk and had to be escorted out.
Speaker E: He got belligerent and ended up crashing right on the table.
Speaker E: My violin was on and leaving it in pieces.
Speaker E: The case was open because I had been explaining how I taught myself to play to another guest.
Speaker E: My friend’s father promised to pay to replace the violin.
Speaker E: I have it in writing.
Speaker E: I waited until my friend got back from his honeymoon and sent them both links to what a replacement cost.
Speaker E: My friend was furious and accused me of trying to hustle them for more money when he knew what I paid for the violin originally, I told him I didn’t want cash.
Speaker E: I wanted a replacement violin of the same caliber.
Speaker E: His father agreed to it.
Speaker E: If they wanted to blame anyone, take it up with the drunk uncle.
Speaker E: We argued some more, and I said I would take them to small claims court.
Speaker E: They paid the replacement cost, but my friendship is obviously over.
Speaker E: The problem is, my girlfriend is still friends with the bride, and she thinks I went overboard here.
Speaker E: Since none of us are exactly rich, we keep arguing about it.
Speaker E: I did a huge favor playing at this wedding, and my instrument got trashed.
Speaker E: The only decent thing to do would be to pay for a replacement.
Speaker E: The bad guy here is the drunk uncle.
Speaker E: If you drove and trashed the front end of my car, it doesn’t matter if it is a beater.
Speaker E: The car repairs need to be paid.
Speaker E: We are still arguing.
Speaker E: I am tired of it.
Speaker E: Help.
Speaker A: So this is probably not getting to the core of the issue, but are you supposed to insure your instruments?
Speaker B: You know what?
Speaker B: Look at me, finance expert.
Speaker A: I’m just looking.
Speaker B: What happened to that violin?
Speaker B: Oh, man, that’s terrible.
Speaker B: Yeah, you probably should have, but I don’t know, because it was already bought.
Speaker B: Seems like it was already bought you.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I guess this person was not a regular wedding performer.
Speaker A: Yeah, but I did kind of think part of volunteer.
Speaker A: So if you were a professional and I did google this a little bit.
Speaker A: For example, I googled what happens if someone damages the DJ’s equipment at a weding.
Speaker A: So I feel like that would be a more common situation.
Speaker A: According to the unofficial answers I saw, usually the contract will include something about that.
Speaker A: So who has to pay for it?
Speaker A: And it’s usually the people hosting the wedding if things get damaged.
Speaker A: So let a writer.
Speaker A: I’m thinking that if you were a professional violinist, you would have had a contract that said, if one of the guests drunkenly ruins my violin, they pay for it.
Speaker A: The replacement cost.
Speaker A: But you were volunteering.
Speaker A: And I wonder if part of volunteering is sort of volunteering to take on all the risks of what might happen.
Speaker B: Not really, I don’t think.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: But I do take your point seriously.
Speaker B: He said, I’m an amateur musician.
Speaker B: And so accordingly, this is all handled sort of amateurishly.
Speaker B: There’s no lesson in this.
Speaker B: I assume you’re not going to be in a situation like this again, where you’re performing for a friend with this violin or whatever.
Speaker B: So how long have you all been together?
Speaker B: How long has she known your friends?
Speaker B: Do they still hang out together, just without you?
Speaker B: And it seems like you’ve already drawn your line in the sand here.
Speaker B: You can’t be moved.
Speaker A: Right?
Speaker B: They are wrong.
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker B: That uncle is the blame.
Speaker B: And your girlfriend knows this, and she’s chosen to proceed accordingly.
Speaker B: She thinks you went overboard.
Speaker B: You can’t convince her otherwise.
Speaker B: Well, it seems like it’s a problem.
Speaker B: Can you live with that?
Speaker A: Well, yeah, I think the letter writer has chosen the violin than the relationships.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And that’s okay.
Speaker A: You’re allowed to be that passionate about your violin and getting a violin of equal value back.
Speaker A: But there are just some things that are going to come along with that when you go around demanding money and taking people to small claims court.
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker B: And actually, I think you got a point, man.
Speaker B: I think that they should have been, oh, my God, I feel so bad.
Speaker B: We’ll cover the violin.
Speaker B: I think your girlfriend should have been like, you know what, man?
Speaker B: It’s too bad that they fought you and you have to go to court on this.
Speaker A: The used violin value would have been a more reasonable demand than the replacement cost.
Speaker A: Because if they just gave you the couple hundred dollars that you spent on it when you got a really good deal, you could go on eBay and get a good deal.
Speaker B: It’s really.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, you took it out, though, you know what I mean?
Speaker B: Like, you didn’t put it in your room and put it on display.
Speaker B: You brought it out into the world.
Speaker B: So there was a chance that something could happen.
Speaker B: Something happened.
Speaker A: You got to watch your valuables really carefully.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: Insurance would have been, yeah, you just left it out.
Speaker B: You just left it out at a wedding around all these other people.
Speaker B: I don’t want to minimize that.
Speaker B: But the issue is that because obviously the violin, the money, it’s all been sent.
Speaker B: But do you want to be in a relationship with someone who won’t back you during what I’m sure was a very stressful legal situation and through the end of an important friendship?
Speaker B: This isn’t about right or wrong.
Speaker B: It’s about what you want out of this relationship.
Speaker B: And it’s one thing for her to disagree.
Speaker B: It’s another for her to be like, they’re right and I’m going to keep hanging out with them.
Speaker A: I got to say, it doesn’t seem sustainable to me.
Speaker A: Even though you weren’t horribly wrong and she’s not horribly wrong.
Speaker B: Yeah, right.
Speaker B: Like you’re tired of it.
Speaker B: Yeah, that seems like the answer here.
Speaker B: Things that you’re tired of, you just don’t continue to do.
Speaker B: One way we could look at it, maybe it’s really cool that your girlfriend feels comfortable enough to disagree with you over something this important to you and still maintain the relationship.
Speaker B: It’s just like, we can disagree.
Speaker B: You know how those couples they talk about, we don’t agree on politics or whatever, but they still can manage to be together.
Speaker B: Like, maybe this is them.
Speaker A: Think about how much more time you’ll have for violin practice when you’re single.
Speaker A: You okay?
Speaker A: Those are all the questions we have for this week.
Speaker A: It’s been fun and hopefully helpful.
Speaker A: Thank you for being here.
Speaker B: It’s always fun with me.
Speaker B: Wow.
Speaker B: That’s great.
Speaker B: Thanks for saying it.
Speaker A: I appreciate it.
Speaker A: I think it’s always fun in general, but of course, you’re part of that especially.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: Well, thanks for having me on.
Speaker A: Thanks for all your financial insights.
Speaker B: I hope people learned a lot of lessons today from me.
Speaker A: Follow Joel for more bitcoin investment strategies.
Speaker B: Hey, look, I don’t know about that, but yeah, reach out to us at emotional investment@slate.com please follow Joel on Twitter.
Speaker A: At byjole Anderson and make sure to read his slate column, emotional investment, which is all about money and how we feel about it.
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Speaker A: I’m your dear Prudence, Janae Desmond Harris.
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Speaker A: And since you’re a member, you get the awesome perk of a weekly segment where I’ll be answering an extra question.
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Speaker A: This week I’m joined by Slate’s own Joel Anderson.
Speaker A: He is the host of Slow Burn seasons three, six and our current season season eight on Clarence Thomas.
Speaker A: Or you may know him from Slate’s sports podcast.
Speaker A: Hang up and listen.
Speaker A: He also happens to be my husband.
Speaker A: This letter is titled Car question.
Speaker F: I promised my father that I would look after my half sister Zia, after he died.
Speaker F: She was only ten and the sweetest little girl I knew at the time.
Speaker F: He and his second wife were in the middle of getting a divorce when he died.
Speaker F: She is 15 now and I don’t even recognize her anymore.
Speaker F: She and a group of her friends decided on a whim to completely destroy a community garden for s**** and giggles.
Speaker F: Luckily, no charges were filed, but Zia only got her phone taken away for a few days.
Speaker F: Her mother thought that was a sufficient punishment and chalks it up to a harmless prank.
Speaker F: Zia is completely unrepentant and even joked she wished she could have seen the faces of the volunteers when they saw the wreckage.
Speaker F: The garden served an immigrant community and that is why it was targeted.
Speaker F: Zia told me that those kinds of people don’t belong here.
Speaker F: My mother is mixed race.
Speaker F: I don’t look anything like her, but part of me wonders, if I did, would my sister consider me to be those kinds of people?
Speaker F: I had promised to give Zia my old car when she turned 16, since there is no way her mother can afford one after all this, the thought honestly sickens me.
Speaker F: Zia doesn’t need to be rewarded like that, but her mother is not interested in getting her help.
Speaker F: My mother suggested selling the car and donating the money to the community to prove a point to Zia.
Speaker F: I’m worried about losing Zia if I do that and failing the promise I made to my father.
Speaker F: Please help me.
Speaker A: So this is tricky for me, I think the ages of, like, twelve to 19 are in a weird gray area where a teen young adult can come off as a horribly s***** person, but they’re still kind of in the stage where you can’t totally hold it against them.
Speaker A: It really goes back on their parents.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker B: The parent is definitely a problem here.
Speaker A: The parent’s a problem here.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: I’m not sure if the solution here, especially as someone who’s made a promise to look out for her, is punishment.
Speaker A: When you were asked to look out for Azea, it was not just about giving her material things.
Speaker A: I think the hope was that you would be someone who would kind of maybe guide her as she was growing up.
Speaker A: And at this moment, she’s desperately in need of guidance.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: She’s 15, so that’s the good thing.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: We’re not talking about a 25 year old.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So there’s still a lot of time for her to become someone who isn’t the kind of person who will harass immigrants.
Speaker B: And you can play a role in that if you’re up for it.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: And we can talk about what that means about the stepmother or whatever.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: But what she is doing isn’t harmless.
Speaker B: This is actual terrorism.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: She’s terrorizing people at immigrants.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: So it’s a really big deal.
Speaker B: So you do need to deal with that.
Speaker B: The car part of it is sort of separate from that.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: But you can either draw a line in the sand or you can be the person that is going to help guide her back from the edge here.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: There’s not a wrong decision.
Speaker B: I don’t think either.
Speaker A: I don’t think there’s a wrong decision because far be it from me to tell anyone they have to embrace and engage with someone who’s a racial terrorist.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: A 15 year old still cut a wound into your heart, man.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker A: It’s not a six year old who’s just repeating something to her.
Speaker A: And again, it’s a weird gray area.
Speaker A: It’s not a six year old, but it’s not a 25 year old.
Speaker A: If you have the bandwidth, if you have the capacity, if you have it in your heart, I think the best thing to do would be to try to wedge your way into her life as a positive influence.
Speaker A: I think that’s what your dad would have wanted for her, assuming he’s someone who shares values with you.
Speaker A: And I don’t see the car as a huge issue.
Speaker A: I think if you said you’d give her a car, you can keep your promise and give her the car.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker A: It’s not going to make her a worse person or more of a terrorist.
Speaker A: I don’t know.
Speaker A: If a kid who’s already going down a terrible road and sounds like her dad passed away, her mother sounds less than impressive.
Speaker A: I don’t know if having the other adult in her life.
Speaker A: You’re shaking your head, but I’m going to finish.
Speaker A: I don’t think having the other adult in her life saying you’re not deserving, you’re hopeless.
Speaker A: I’m going to punish you is going to help her become better.
Speaker B: So we don’t know if Zia knows about the promise of the car.
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker A: I was assuming that she did.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: Okay.
Speaker B: If not, great, you don’t have to do it.
Speaker B: Or if she knows about it, then it can come with conditions attached, right?
Speaker B: It could be.
Speaker B: Oh, you’ve got to volunteer here and do this.
Speaker B: You’ve got to show me this sort of improvement.
Speaker B: Whatever.
Speaker B: Something.
Speaker B: Attend a protest, whatever.
Speaker B: I hate to put people in communities in exposure to people like this.
Speaker B: Go volunteer at your local mom.
Speaker A: Yeah, she’s a little monster.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: But something that could help to humanize the people that she’s demonizing for her.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker B: You can give her the car when she’s met those conditions.
Speaker B: Right?
Speaker B: Do this, do that, and you get it.
Speaker B: If you don’t, it’s on you.
Speaker B: And your mom didn’t have a terrible idea, but if you want to give her some incentive to improve, you can probably do that for a 15 year old.
Speaker A: I guess I’m thinking about it as you talk, and I guess the reason to not give her the car would not be to punish her.
Speaker A: It would be because you don’t want her to have another tool in her arsenal to travel.
Speaker B: I was.
Speaker A: Greater distances get to more people and cause more harm.
Speaker B: I was just going to say that.
Speaker B: I was just like, how do I know you’re not going to use the commit or the crimes against immigrants?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker A: You know what I’m saying?
Speaker A: I think that would have to be the reason.
Speaker A: Not punishment.
Speaker B: Punishment is a part of it, too.
Speaker A: I mean, punishment is fine, but the reason that resonates with me is especially, which resonates with me as I think about the letter writer who’s someone who’s charged with looking after this young lady, is that I don’t want to help you go get yourself into more trouble and do more harm to people.
Speaker A: Well, I’m not going to give you a tool to do that because I don’t think you have the capacity to make good choices right now.
Speaker B: No, that’s exactly what I was going to say.
Speaker B: Right now.
Speaker B: You don’t seem to have the judgment or the maturity, and it requires that to have a car at that age, contrary to public.
Speaker B: When I was 16 and I got a car, I had to keep it up and do all this other stuff.
Speaker B: And you could kill somebody in that thing, man.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker B: So say you’ve got to show me this before I will allow you to have that.
Speaker B: But also, I don’t have a.
Speaker A: You don’t want her showing up at a protest, running people over.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, man, it’s legal in some states.
Speaker A: Now pull back on the car, but pair it with a reasoning about why that’s not just you did something bad, so you don’t deserve good things, but more that this is the kind of person we’re hoping you turn into.
Speaker A: And I don’t want to help you stray too far from that.
Speaker A: And I’m here for you.
Speaker B: I agree with everything you said, except for you feel free to say, well, this is also because you did bad stuff, and I don’t think you face enough consequences for your actions.
Speaker B: So this is also a part of that as well.
Speaker B: But that’s my speech.
Speaker B: You get to pick.
Speaker B: Yeah, I didn’t say jail.
Speaker B: Just not getting her cars jail.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker A: You said she didn’t face enough consequences.
Speaker B: Well, no, I’m just saying, like, maybe she needed more community service or whatever.
Speaker B: I don’t know.
Speaker B: But maybe she need to be picking up trash off the side of the highway.
Speaker A: Okay, well, yeah, okay.
Speaker A: Let her write.
Speaker A: Hold on to the car for now.
Speaker A: Thank you again for being a slate plus member.
Speaker A: The Dear Prudence podcast would not be possible without you.
Speaker A: Until next time.
